What happens when the “Brady Bunch” years are over and the house suddenly goes quiet? For many women, the empty nest isn’t just a change in schedule – it’s a full-blown identity crisis.
In this “Hot Seat” coaching episode, Lori Lyons sits down with Dr. Karen Diegelman, a former special education teacher who proved it’s never too late to start over by earning her PhD at age 56. Together, they strip away the “coachy” language and dive into the raw reality of midlife transitions. If you’ve ever walked into your child’s empty bedroom and felt like a stranger in your own home, this episode is for you.
3 Things You Will Learn in This Episode:
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How to Separate “Mommy” from “Self”: Learn to identify the specific symptoms of an identity crisis and how to validate your past without letting it stall your future.
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The “Shrine” vs. The “Space”: Why giving yourself permission to reclaim physical space in your home is the first step toward reclaiming your mental space.
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Aspirational Business Growth: Why high-ticket clients pay for a “transformation” (like saving a marriage or finding a new purpose) rather than a list of PDFs or coaching calls.
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Chapter 1: Introduction and The “Hot Seat”
Timestamp: 00:00:00
Lori: Yeah. Hi there, and welcome to the Midlife Business Academy. You are in for a treat today because I am so excited to introduce you to my hot seat coaching victim. I mean, my hot seat coaching guest, Karen Diegelman with Learn and Thrive Coaching. So Karen, welcome. I’m so glad you’re here.
Karen: Thanks, Lori. I’m really excited and scared to death to be here.
Lori: There is nothing to be scared of. I only bite a little bit. So don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it. So, and Karen and I go way back. She and I were in a business coaching program together many years ago. And so, and we’ve stayed in touch. And she reached out to recently and Karen is one of my new coaching clients. And I was so excited. We had a conversation. I’m like, let’s do this on a hot seat coaching call. So in full transparency, Karen is a coaching client. So I have an advantage to know a little bit about her. But we’re excited because we’re going to talk about some specific things within our with as we’re as we’re working through this. So Karen, let’s get started. You ready?
Karen: I’m ready.
Chapter 2: Karen’s Journey from Teaching to PhD
Timestamp: 00:01:12
Lori: Okay. So start off by telling us a little bit about what you do.
Karen: Okay. So I’m a retired teacher. So I was a high school special ed teacher. And then I worked as an adjunct professor at a small university, and then I had a position of assistant director for a life program at Coastal Carolina University here in South Carolina. And what that is, is it’s a program where kids with intellectual disability get to go to college. They audit courses, they live in the dorms, they can join a Greek fraternity or sorority if they want to, and that was just a big part of my life because my oldest brother had Down syndrome. So this is like so cool. Now I am home and gardening and that and that’s not enough. I raised six kids. That is not enough. So I’m getting my coaching back ignited, I’ll say, with Lori and her program. And we’ve worked together and we’ve been friends for a long time. So it’s really a pleasure to be here with you. I appreciate you.
Chapter 3: The Brady Bunch and the Empty Nest
Timestamp: 00:02:26
Lori: Well, thank you. Thank you for the kind words there. So, all right, so let’s jump in. And I’m taking advantage of knowing a little bit about you because so let’s talk about raising six kids. And let’s talk about some of the things you did as while after the six kids, because we’re gonna go into where you’re leaning, where you’re going.
Karen: Okay, super. So we are a Brady Bunch. So I had three kids and my husband had three kids. We’d each been married for 10 years and we put our families together. So all of a sudden I’m raising six kids and they were ages four to 12 when we got married. So we’ve been married to a good long time. So I mostly, you know, I work from home and I worked a little bit part-time, but teenagers are more, you have to watch them more than you watch toddlers. And so I was home and then, you know, one by one, I’m gonna go live with a friend, I’m gonna, you know, go live with my boyfriend, I’m gonna go away to college. it just started dissipating out. And the funny thing was that my youngest kept coming back and then she’d move out and then she’d come back and she had several apartments. And but then she met her now husband and moved out. And I’m like, oh, my goodness, I think I need to find something to do because I don’t know what my future is. And I don’t want to get depressed because I’m you know, I had already been studying and coaching and stuff even then. So I said, okay, I got to coach myself. What am I going to do?
And so I at that point, I took some assessments at the community college, tried out being a realtor, tried out being a Montessori preschool teacher, and then ended up being, you know, a high school teacher. And I was already in my 50s, folks, when I studied all this, because you can imagine the first 25 years of my life, I was just raising kids and there’s no time to really be doing other stuff other than part-time kind of, well, for me. But anyway, so after I started working as a teacher in the high school, and I had a different bachelor’s degree, so I had to get a teaching certificate, emergency certificate. And then I’m like, well, I’m doing good. I might as well get my master’s. And as soon as I had my master’s, I’m loving what I’m learning. And I worked with kids with really severe disabilities, so a lot of them didn’t talk. Most of them didn’t walk. So it was more… It was more challenging in a way, but what I was learning in school was how to teach math and science using other ways instead of regular math books. And I got so excited about it, I wanted to teach other teachers how to do that. So I applied for the PhD program, and then four years later, I had my PhD in special ed as well. And that’s what led me to, uh working at the life program and the being an assistant uh I’m sorry an adjunct professor right right as I was teaching our kids who were our kids with disabilities who were in the classes and I was teaching them life skills but I also was um I was teaching teachers future teachers how to do what I do so it was pretty it was pretty fun.
Chapter 4: Defining the Ideal Client Identity Crisis
Timestamp: 00:06:14
Lori: So would you say that after your last child left and got married and you went back and started, you were looking at a reinvention because now you were what we call the empty nester. You were an empty nester at that point because you had, all your kiddos had left the nest at that point. So you did all of this after your kids were gone?
Karen: Oh, yes. I got my PhD when I was 56, believe it or not. And I’m in classes with all these 30 year olds. They’re all having their 30th birthday and their first kid. And I’m like, oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah.
Lori: So, you’re a perfect, you’re a perfect example of who you want to work with. Your experience is part of your story. So let’s go into, because what we’ve talked about, one of the things that we talked about in our first session was identifying who you want to work with, who is your, and I’m putting air quotes around this, ideal client. And so tell us a little bit about that ideal client and who she or he, I know you’re more comfortable working with women, but there are men that are empty nesters. So tell us a little bit about who that person is.
Karen: This is the way I’m picturing, not someone with six kids, but I’m picturing somebody with three. And so maybe the way I have her all pictured in my mind is, now she works full time in a, I think she’s an office manager, you know, at a real estate company. She has a job, she’s doing other things, but her kids are busy. They’re in theater, they’re in sports, they’re in dance. So once she comes home from work, her life is filled with, getting the snacks and the oranges ready for the soccer team and for being on stage and sewing stuff or whatever for her daughter who’s in theater and the other son. And so that fills up a lot of her time. Right. Right. And now that the oldest son has moved into an apartment with some local kids, you know, down the road, but boys, they don’t come home. And then the daughters at, In my mind, she’s already a couple years into a local college, but then the baby, kind of like with me, the baby’s like thinking about college. He’s been accepted at three or four and all of them are at least four hours away. So now all of a sudden, my ideal client is going, whoa, wait, wait, wait. this is happening too fast and what’s going on and I’m losing my identity per se. There was some air quotes in there, sorry. And so she’s trying to figure out what does she do with her time and with her, you know, that kind of stuff. So she’s, the crisis is not so much, oh, I’m gonna miss my kids. It’s almost like I planned my whole life for them, but I forgot to plan for me. What do I want to keep working here? But, you know, or do I want to start finding something for me? Because I need to fill these void of time, right?
Chapter 5: Validating the Experience and Exploring Challenges
Timestamp: 00:09:34
Lori: So your ideal client is basically having an identity crisis.
Karen: Yes, for sure.
Lori: Not necessarily work-wise, but personal-wise. So what are, how does this show up? How does an identity crisis in that empty nest, or her kids are all gone, so they’re out of the picture now, so to speak.
Karen: Yeah, one’s ready to go.
Lori: Yeah, okay, so let’s, you know, we’re gonna say for our purposes today, everybody’s gone. So now all of a sudden, what are some of the questions that she’s struggling with? Where do you come in and show your expertise with this, with their struggles?
Karen: First is coming to terms with, basically, you’re good. You did a good job at, being a mom and you could do whatever you want. And I know she doesn’t want to hear that at first, but we kind of go through that emotional stuff and kind of find out how-?
Lori: You validate her experience.
Karen: Validating, right, and help her find her comfort zone of, okay, does she want to stay what she’s doing or does she have something else that she’s always thought about doing? So we do, there’s some probing assessments and there’s some brainstorming and vision board work to just help her figure out what does she want the next 20, 30 years to look like without the kids there? And then we go through, you know, step-by-step process of looking at each of those things and just taking the time to sit back and help her feel what she wants to be getting. Well, how does she want to fill her void, you know?
Lori: Okay, okay. So when they work with you, we first look at the validation of their past, because I think every woman when their kids leave, I mean, I only had one and I kind of felt that as well. What other things tend to come up for them when all of a sudden they’re now this new person? What are some other challenges that you see that they might face besides identity?
Karen: Well, that struggle with fig figuring out what do you want to do next. Because at that age your kids have grown up. So I’m looking like, you know, a later middle age person, male or female. You don’t know, are you too old to be doing something new? Do you have to just stick? And do I actually like what I’ve been doing? So there’s a lot of thought-provoking work that we do at that point. You know, they feel, or you look like you’re going to talk, so I’ll let you.
Lori: No, no, no, I’m just, it hit me when you said something. So go ahead and finish your thought and then, because it won’t change that.
Karen: All right, so there’s about, do I want to start over? Am I too old? What skills do I actually have? Because for her, she’s only worked in this office, so she doesn’t really know anything else. But as we’re probing, like, did you have some kind of dream you had when you were still a teenager before you had the kids? Like, what were those kind of things that you might want to do? And a lot of times with clients, because I’ve worked with clients in this kind of an area before, that they There’s a spark like, oh yeah, I remember how much I enjoyed that. But the, it’s too late to do it now or I don’t have the skills. And so we have discussions and there’s also assessments that they’ll go through of what kind of skills matched with careers and jobs that we could go through too.
Chapter 6: Financial Freedom and Aspirational Branding
Timestamp: 00:13:17
Lori: All right, so far you’re validating their history, you’re looking at what the direction is they want to go now that we’ve identified this new person. And my thought was, you know, if they’re, you know, let’s say they’re in that 55 to 60 range, which is, you know, there are some people that are empty nesters, I mean, you know, way earlier, but depending on when they had their, but I would say for the most, so it’s that midlife. And I happen to think that, It’s never too late to start the business of your dreams. But does finances play a part in this now that in theory, the expense of children are gone, they’re on their own? Does this give them a sense of freedom as far as what they can do? Or do they still feel tied to that job because they need the money coming in? Or where do finances or financial thoughts come into this for them? Can I afford to do this? To do what I want.
Karen: And I think someone who’s had their own job, their own income coming in, like if both partners are working, that’s the value of that. There’s some money put there for that self-development kind of thing or things you want to do for yourself. And I know when I took my first business course and it was expensive and I just felt like inside, I need this. This is worth it. This is going to teach me something I don’t know yet. You know, just, and I think people value different things, but that education was just something I valued. So we would find what she values and help her, help her find, you know, like for the coaching, what do I have to offer you that is what you value.
Lori: So what I’m hearing, and we can, I mean, we can spend the next 20 minutes talking about all of the thoughts that she’s having, but what I’m hearing is that these are more reshaping who she is. And there are many verticals that we can work on. So really what you’re looking at, Karen, is more of an aspirational brand. You’re looking at a way to transform where they are right now, emotionally, mentally, financially, personally, which means that, and what an aspirational brand is a brand or aspirational transformational brand is a brand or a program that speaks to what they want to become. You’re not giving them guidelines. You’re not giving them strategies, although that will be part of it. But the outcome is aspirational, not the program itself.
So your promise to them is as important because that’s how you’re going to develop your program based on who they are going to become, not who they are today. So if today they’re struggling with their identity, they’re struggling with a sense of loss, they’re struggling with how to talk to their partner. I mean, I remember when my son left and I looked at my husband, I’m like, What do we even have in common anymore? Because for, you know, in our case, it was 26 years of talking about kid. And now all of a sudden, what do we do?
Karen: And multiply that.
Lori: Yes, yes, by six in your case. So yeah, so I think it’s, I think that identity crisis, if you will, is very valid for a lot of women who are so tired. And let’s face it, when you’re looking at raising kids, a lot of it falls on the mom. You know, there are dads out there, don’t get me wrong, dads, I’m not discounting you if you’re listening, but a lot of it falls on the mom to get them places to do things, to sit at the practices, to sit at the rehearsals and whatever they happen to be doing. And now all of that’s gone, a social structure is gone in a lot of cases.
Karen: And the friends that go with sitting at the soccer game, being at the performances, that’s a big component because who am I going to hang with? No one will get me anymore. You don’t have the same identity as the people you’ve been hanging with. so that that’s a big void too.
Chapter 7: Developing the Transformational Promise
Timestamp: 00:17:49
Lori: Yes. So when you look at all of those different feelings that are coming up for your ideal client, what can you take those and mold them? And let’s look at what kind of aspirational or transformational promise can you give them just at a high level with where you want to go with this? What do you see? And if you can keep it succinct, keep it in about, you know, a minute or less. Because then we’ll start forming the message from that.
Karen: Okay. I think you’re asking me like, what is she gonna feel when she gets to the other side?
Lori: Right, right. What is the promise that she’s gonna pay you for? What are you gonna promise her that you are going to do, the transformational promise that she’s going to get coming into you and working with you in an identity crisis, By the time she finishes with you, she’s going to be who.
Karen: Okay, so she’s going to feel confident that she has the ability to change and do something new. She’ll have the, hopefully she’ll have the created a design that she wants of where she wants to go and taken the first steps towards that. Okay. You know, whatever that takes, if she wants to do something very creative to take some courses in that, or if she wants a different degree to go back to school, you know, like I did. So giving her a sense of, she would have a sense of purpose beyond mommy. That she is her own self, has a purpose. And there’s a lot of strength in that. I think that that’s a big, big piece. So, and just to have a new vision for herself, to feel that she’s able to do that, that she doesn’t have to worry about her age or her education or anything, but that Really, the door’s wide open for her to figure out what she wants to do next.
Lori: And you’re there to lift and support that vision.
Karen: Yes, exactly, yes.
Chapter 8: Who NOT to Work With: The “Shrine” Phase
Timestamp: 00:20:00
Lori: Right, so within your messaging, because a lot of times, you know, sometimes, and I think of the friends that I’ve had that have become empty nesters, they don’t realize what the problem is until they see it or they hear it. Oh, wow, that’s me. I didn’t realize that I’m in deep depression because my kids are all gone. A lot of women don’t see that because they keep, they keep going and existing from day-to-day. So, there’s part of your aspirational message. Now let’s flip it for just a second. Who do you not want to work with?
Karen: Well, I don’t want to work with someone who is going to be struggling to afford me all this.
Lori: Ready, Willen, and Able. I love that you talk about Able. Yes.
Karen: There’s some women out there that they don’t want to go past that. They just want to go and go in each of their kids’ rooms and smell them. the same decorations are on all the walls instead of turning it into your exercise room or your office. That woman, I don’t believe, is who I want. Someone who just wants to stay in the muddle of-.
Lori: The shrine to the kids.
Karen: Yes. And the model of feeling sorry for themselves for that, you know, the client I’m looking for is someone who’s more like, it’s like an edgy depression or an edgy kind of anxiety of like, I don’t know what to do with this. This is something that’s been plopped in my lap. And they’re looking for guidance of how to get to that next step. You know, they already know there’s something underneath they might want to do, but maybe ashamed to say it because they should be like so happy that they’re a mom, but there’s something else like all these years that they’ve kind of thought, oh boy, if I could do that, you know, that’s what gets me excited to work with a client because they, you have to help them get, find that, you know, and that’s those coaching strategies and stuff. But then when they’re ready, then the guidance is more helping them take the steps.
Chapter 9: Facing Guilt and Reconnecting with the Self
Timestamp: 00:22:15
Lori: Yes. And as you were talking, I was also thinking, what is the flip side of this? The woman who, she’s excited that she’s raised these wonderful children and they’ve flown the nest and they’re out on their own and now they’re thriving and she doesn’t want to feel guilty that she doesn’t miss them.
Karen: That’s an honest person. I know her. I’ve got her.
Lori: Yeah, and maybe that’s another flip side of who she is and that’s who she’s aspiring to be. So, because, it’s the yin and the yang, the opposite and, opposite of what is real is what could be. So, that could be that person that she wants to become but doesn’t know how to get there. And a little bit of her might feel guilty that she’s excited that they’re gone because she, shouldn’t feel that way. She should want to be this nurturing mom.
Karen: Right, right. And you find that a lot. An example is actually one of my grandma’s that she never did anything, but she was like a singer. She was going to go to Juilliard, shut it all down to have her kids. And then once everybody was gone, she joined the choir and she started volunteering and like, who are you? It was like, it just, and one of my cousin’s older, my parents’ cousin said, she used to be like the life of the party before she had all these kids.
Lori: And, isn’t that sad? Because we don’t want to change who we are. underneath all of that. And a lot of women do.
Karen: Right, but they forget it.
Lori: Yes, they forget it. And now all of a sudden they have to come to terms with it. And I liked what you said earlier about what did you dream of before? What are the dreams that you let go? Because I think if we can tap into that and find that, then that will give them a starting point of like, oh yeah, this is who I was and who I’m gonna become.
Chapter 10: Refining the Marketing Message
Timestamp: 00:24:18
Lori: So let’s break this down into a marketing message about who you want to be. And then we’re going to talk a little bit about your company name, because I do want to go there before we run out of time a little bit. So throw out for me a first pass at who you want to work with. And think of it in terms of this is who I want to work with. This is the problem that they’re struggling with. And this is the solution that I’m going to provide. And the problem can also be a symptom of a problem. It doesn’t have to be an overreaching problem. It can be a symptom because I talk in terms of, you know, every problem has symptoms. And a lot of times your clients will see themselves in the symptoms. They may not identify with the problem.
Karen: Oh, so true, right? Put you on the spot, take a first pass of it.
Karen: Okay. So, So I’m going to say someone, let’s say late 40s to early 60s.
Lori: I’m going to stop you there. Tighten that up. Give it a five year window. It doesn’t mean you can’t work it with a 40 year old, but you know, there’s not a whole, whole, whole lot of 40 year olds that are empty nesters. Most of them are within the, there are, so don’t, you know, before you write to me, I know. But for the most part, they’re within a certain age. So let’s narrow it to a five year window to give you some clear definition of who they are. They will know who they are.
Karen: All right. I was picturing 50 to 55. And just how I was going. Okay. So they’re feeling lost. They’re struggling day-to-day, worrying, concerned that their kids are all going to be out of the house and they are really worried about what’s left for them? Who, what’s up for them?
Lori: Okay. So there’s your symptom of a problem. All right. So how are you going to serve them?
Karen: So, so I serve them by helping them discover what’s missing in their lives, because it might be more than just kids being out of the house and, and help them design the life that they might want to step into, that they want. Basically, not the right words, but that’s the idea.
Lori: Yeah. So we’re going to fine tune that a little bit. And I coach around not using the word help. And the reason I do that is because help is an assist word, not an expert word. So we’re going to guide, we’re going to reinvent with them. We’re going to show them how to reimagine. We’re going to, there’s any number of expert words we can use. So, you know, think in terms of that. And it’s a hard, I still do it as much as I coach against it. I still find myself doing I help. And I stop myself. No, you know, give it, they’ll, you know, I watched one of the Harry Potter movies over the weekend with Dolby the Elf, you know, like, stop. It’s a hard habit to break when you’ve been doing it for many, many, many years. All right. So let’s put it in terms of I work with.
Karen: Okay. I work with 50 to 55 year old women who have, who are experiencing loss and depression because their kids have all left home. And I help them reinvent who they are. by guiding them through steps to reassess where they are and where they want to go.
Lori: All right, we’re getting there. We’re going to be a little more specific. I work with empty nester women. Of course. 50 to 55, who have lost their sense of identity and walk into an empty room and have no idea who they are. Oh, I like that. We work toward, and we could work around those words. I’m trying to avoid help. We work toward reimagining and reinventing who they are at this stage in their life so that they can have better conversations with their partners and spouses so that they can make decisions about what they want to do with their future, whether it be work or not work or hobbies or travel or whatever they want to do so that they can come to terms with where they are at this stage in their life and not feel guilty that they’re happy that their kids are gone.
Chapter 11: Business Naming and High-Ticket Value
Timestamp: 00:29:20
Karen: Oh, there’s that.
Lori: Yeah, so there’s a lot. Yeah, so there’s a lot of stuff in there that we’ll fine tune that because I think there’s several different messages for each of those different women. But I wanted you to see that you want to be very specific. about who you’re talking to because they will recognize themselves. When you’re using very coachy terms of realign and be the best that you can be, that won’t bring in your high-ticket clients. Your high-ticket clients are gonna pay for a transformation and we’re gonna give them the transformation. Here’s the symptom of the problem. And here’s the transformation that I am going to provide for you and work with you on so that symptom of the problem, that problem goes away. And that’s where you’re going to find, and that’s where they’re going to identify within that language, they’re going to see themselves. And that’s what you want to do. You want to be very specific about the language. Is that clear to you? Does that, and we can work on that in our calls too.
Karen: Yeah, it is clear to me and I can’t wait to watch this back so I can write it down.
Lori: And you’ll get once we’re once the call is completed within the next day or so, I’ll send you I’ll send you a breakdown of the call, all the things that we talked about, all the, you know, all the, you know, the action steps that we’ll talk about in a minute. So all this will come, you’ll get a, you’ll get a, you know, a breakdown of it. So let’s go back for just a second. We’re going to move off of your message for just a second, because your Learn and Thrive Coaching is the name of your business. And I know you said you’ve had several different names that you coached under before. But I actually think, and I’ve thought about this a lot since you signed on as a client, of how this could work for you. Because actually, you’re relearning, you’re working with your clients to relearn a way of looking at themselves so that they can thrive.
So I think we can use this since that’s kind of where you’ve been in the last few years and you’re already branded that way. What we do is we add a subtitle, Learn and Thrive Coaching, a reset reinvention for empty nest women. So we put a subtitle to it so it says exactly who it’s for. Learn and thrive coaching, reinvention for women who no longer have an identity without their kids. I mean, those are kind of, those are kind of like not sexy words, but, and we can make it that way. But if we add some, a subtitle along the lines of what you’re actually doing, I think we can make that work.
Karen: I love that.
Lori: Yeah. we can work on that. But give you some, that’s an action step for you to think, how can I, you know, how can I use that and keep it that way? And then you don’t have to go in and change everything. And I know you’ve got the domain Learn and Thrive Coaching.
Karen: Right. Yeah, I do.
Lori: Yeah. So we just add the subtitle to it. And that points directly to who it’s for you.
Chapter 12: Mindset Shift: Selling Results, Not PDFs
Timestamp: 00:32:38
Lori: So if we’re looking at it in terms of of an aspirational, transformational brand. This means that you’re going to be able to attract clients who can afford to pay you. And you brought that up earlier? You know, we talk about ready, willing, and able. Your ideal client has to be able to pay you. How does that feel when you talk about charging for a transformation? How does, what does that feel to you? What does that feel like?
Karen: For our non-watching people, my hands are in the air and I’m going.
Lori: Yeah, she just like gulped big time.
Karen: Yes. So how does it feel for me? I think as I’m building it, because I had a different coaching base that I worked from before and I’m changing that. So, and I, felt comfortable charging money with what I was doing before, but now I’m creating something new and I had, I felt good about charging more because I see the value of it. And I think the thing that was holding me back, honestly, was finding out what is my pack, what does my package look like? And I’ve spent a lot of time this week looking at that and I feel a lot stronger about saying, yes, this is what I’m gonna offer, you know, this is what I’m offering you and this is what it costs. Right. I’m more comfortable with that than I was a week ago. ‘Cause I had to dive in and be her and coach her. And what questions does she have? What answers do I have? What, you know, to make, to be comfortable with saying I have value?
Lori: Right. And I want you to keep this in mind because you brought up a good point. And I think a lot of times we feel like I don’t have enough in a program. I don’t have enough in this. But remember, people are going to pay for the transformation. They’re not going to pay for how many PDFs you have. So when you look at what a package is, your package needs to cover the transformation. And if it’s, if you can do a transformation for part A, because A lot of times empty nester women will have many different symptoms of problems, many different problems. And we’ve talked about that. Where is that value line and where is that ladder of all the different problems? And where am I going to speak to? Because we’ve identified, I think, five or six different directions that you can go or markets within that empty nester market that you can go. So there, it’s not going to necessarily, that could change depending on what the transformation is that you provide.
But if you’re looking at an ideal client and they’re coming to you because they have no idea what to say to their spouses anymore, or their partners, and their marriage is in trouble, or their relationship is in trouble, and this is something that you’re helping them with, PDFs aren’t going to help with that. They’re going to pay you for saving their marriage. And that’s a whole lot more than how many calls they’re going to get in a month. So do you see the difference in the mindset shift of work around where your transformation, what your promise to that client is going to be, not what your package is? Because that can come. And as business owners, we can expand to that, we can collapse that, we can do whatever we want with that package. Your job is to talk to them about where they want to be when they finish working with you. And that’s what you charge them for.
Karen: And I think that what I needed to wrap around in my head was more about the, it’s really the emotional stuff that comes first. And because the old package that I had was for a different demographic of person and it was more practical minded, but this is more emotional minded because you can’t move into the next step till you kind of understand yourself and know where you want to be going next.
Chapter 13: Creating the Value Ladder
Timestamp: 00:36:56
Lori: Right. And when you look at value offers or value ladders and offer, you know, offer one, offer two, offer three that ascend in transformation, your first offer can look at something to get, you know, to get them to know who you are, to get them a sample of your coaching. It can take one little micro problem and it could just be something silly, like what to do with the empty room. That is becomes a micro condition or a micro symptom of an empty nester. are you still sharing, I’m going to give you permission to change that room into something that works for you. If you want a music room, a craft room, an exercise room, or whatever kind of room that is, and you get a blow up for when the kids come back and visit, you know? Right, So that could be a little mini program that talks to one of the symptoms. Your bigger, higher ticket program is the total transformation. So you could, if you look at it that way, you know, as a pathway of working with you, then that takes some of that pressure off of what your program, air quotes again, has to be.
Chapter 14: Action Steps and Accountability
Timestamp: 00:38:10
Lori: All right, so we’ve talked a lot of, you know, we’ve hit on a lot of different spots. What is for you the biggest change from this call that that’s, and I know that’s a, that’s a tough question to ask on the spot in 30 minutes. What, what is, what is an aha that you got from this call?
Karen: Several. Can I do several if I do them correct? Being able to keep my branding. And because that’s one thing I don’t, but adding the, the, you know, the byline to it. I think that that’s perfect because it’s not recreating the wheel. It’s not recreating how my brain wants to be guiding and encouraging, not helping. And, but just putting who, who I’m looking for to help. Um, the pool questions, the questions about what they’re really looking for in their, their pain basically is, you know, you kind of changed how I’m looking at that as well, too. Just how you define, you describe the different processes that I’m over here going, I know I need to do this, but I don’t really know where I’m going, like with the package and stuff. So you’ve just really clarified a lot of stuff for me. And I appreciate that.
Lori: You’re very welcome. Very good. Very good. So let’s talk about your next steps from the call. And what are some, because one of your goals of working together is to start getting clients. And the first thing we need to do is really identify and hone in on who that client was. So I’m going to give you some clear action steps. This will be for some of your accountability in our next calls. There’s going to be, I’m going to give you 3 things to do.
The first thing I want you to do is go on Facebook. Now, we’re not gonna, we’re not, I’m not saying go post on Facebook. I’m saying go on Facebook and do a search for empty nester groups. And what I want you to do is look for empty nester groups that are active, that have people that are posting constantly. And you’re gonna find them anywhere from 2,000 members to 50,000, and I think there’s some larger. So you’re gonna find some very different size of empty nester groups. And I want you to identify two or three that kind of the message that you’re hearing from them really talks to you. I don’t want you to go in and promote your coaching because that’s not fair in a group, especially if another coach has started this group. But what you can do is go in and start joining conversations. Because by joining the conversations and giving feedback or helping somebody with a question that they’ve answered, you’re going to start pulling your expertise and people are going to start looking at who you are. And we’ll talk about your social media profiles in one of our calls and we’ll bone the, you know. beef those up some so that when they start looking at who is this person that’s commenting, God, that was really good advice she just gave me. Well, when my sixth child left, this is what I did. There are ways that you can do that to start getting your name and that will start helping you be part of that community.
The second thing I want you to do is I want you to make a list of everybody that you know of that is an empty nester. Because with the kids that you’ve had, you’ve been around in these groups and you may not have talked to them for five years or 10 years. But think of who they are and who would be in this situation and write their names down, make a list of them. And then we’re going to identify who you can call and ask them, I am doing this for a project. Can I get your feedback? Because I know you’re probably in the same situation and this is where I was. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. That’s it. You’re going to, and that’s going to give you 2 things. It’s going to reintroduce yourself to them because they could be still an ideal client, but it’s also going to give you language. around what they said so that you can identify, really get language around the problems and the symptoms of the problems that you solve. All right?
Then we’re gonna start thinking about a webinar so that as these women say, they say, Yeah, I’m working on a program for this. Probably they’re gonna say, Let me know if they’re still in that space. We’re gonna start doing simple webinars, simple Zoom calls to bring them all together. And then we’ll start building your client list that way.
Karen: I really like that.
Lori: So good, good. So they’re simple things to do, but when you start identifying who your ideal client is, who do you know that’s that ideal client? How can you ask them in a way that is non-threatening? Because everybody’s like, Oh gosh, she’s gonna try to sell me something. We don’t wanna do that. We wanna get their honest feedback and we want to get responses and language from them, and that’s your goal. Hopefully they will say at the end, let me know because I might be interested in this. And probably half of them will, maybe more. And bingo, there you start having clients.
Chapter 15: Conclusion and Call to Action
Timestamp: 00:43:42
Karen: Yes, I’m there. I’m ready.
Lori: Okay, good, And I know you, this will probably all be done by day after tomorrow.
Karen: Are you calling me an overachiever?
Lori: No, I’m calling you somebody that is ready, willing, and able to get going.
Karen: I am, and I’m determined. Yes, that’s right.
Lori: Determined. You’re determined. So Karen, thank you so much for being in the hot seat today. I know it’s been good for you. I know that we’ve gotten some good work done with you, and I’m looking forward to our next coaching conversation because I think we’re going to have some good, and I can’t wait to hear the outcome of some of your action steps here. And we got a lot to do in the next call. So looking forward to it. So thank you.
Karen: Thanks so much for having me. This is great. I learned a lot and I’m ready to try some stuff out. So thank you.
Lori: Perfect. Nerves gone? Nerves feel better.
Karen: Oh, yeah. I’m good. I’m good to go.
Lori: So not scary at all. So if you are listening, if you were listening to the call or listening to the episode, and you would like to be in the hot seat. See, it’s not very scary at all. It’s easy. Yes. Then go to MyCoachLori, L-O-R-I.com, and schedule your hot seat coaching episodes. I do these once a month, every month on my podcast, and I would love to have you as a guest in the hot seat. So this has been Lori Lyons. I’m your host on the Midlife Business Academy, and I’m looking forward to hearing all about your, what we can do, what I can do to serve you, and guide you onto the next step. And remember, it’s never too late to build the business of your dreams. We’ll see you next time. And we’re off.