Downloads are a vanity metric if your podcast doesn’t drive conversations with the right people. Lori coaches Tanja Horan on using her new podcast as a business development engine: a clear opening that calls out decision makers, a guest strategy built around real problems (not “spotlighting”), and SEO choices that make the show searchable. The goal is simple: build authority, attract ideal clients, and keep the content value-first without turning episodes into awkward sales pitches.
What You’ll Learn:
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How to reframe your podcast as a funnel that reduces pressure on downloads
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How to invite guests without attracting tire kickers who only want visibility
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How to tighten podcast SEO using subtitles, author fields, and metadata
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Resources:
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00:00 Introduction and what Tanja does
01:15 Nonprofits can earn revenue and why profit matters
03:55 Ideal client: nonprofits ready to scale and leadership roles
05:35 What Tanja is launching: Impact Catapult cohort and roundtable
07:55 New podcast: Make Nonprofits Profitable and its goals
10:20 Reframing the podcast as business development and a funnel
14:35 Crafting a clear opening that calls in executive directors
19:15 SEO, searchable subtitles, and podcast metadata tips
22:35 Guest strategy: past clients and inviting ideal prospects
24:55 How to frame invitations and avoid “thinly disguised” sales calls
29:15 Seeding offers naturally while leading with value
30:55 Biggest takeaways and wrap-up
00:01:27 Lori
Hi there, and welcome to the Midlife Business Academy. I’m Lori Lyons, your host, and I am so excited today to have in our hot seat coaching episode, Tanja Horan with Tacosa 360. This is her business, and she’s going to explain all about some new and exciting things that she has coming up. And I’m so excited. So welcome, Tanja. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do.
00:01:53 Tanja Horan
Hi, Lori. Thank you so much for having this time and having me with you today. I’m super excited for our conversation. So I work with nonprofits and I come with a little bit different perspective with them. I came from a background of a product leader in a for-profit arena and have taken to be able to help nonprofits grow in scale and be the business that they are by helping them align their people and their processes, as well as introduce and scale earned revenue opportunities so they can de-risk their funding and really grow exponentially their impact.
00:02:35 Lori
I think it’s so exciting what you do because you and I had a conversation prior to this and I was like, I think the biggest myth about nonprofits, is it nonprofit or not-for-profit or both?
00:02:47 Tanja Horan
Both. They’re used interchangeably.
00:02:50 Lori
Okay. I think one of the biggest myths is that I hear so many not-for-profit leaders say, “We can’t earn money.” Debunk that myth for me.
00:03:03 Tanja Horan
Thank you for asking that question, because that is true. Most don’t realize that they can and they need to earn money, and they have a lot of different options. They can do the grants and the philanthropy and the donations that they’re used to, but they also can earn revenue. So if you think about it, do you like Girl Scout cookies?
00:03:24 Lori
Do you love Girl Scout cookies?
00:03:25 Tanja Horan
Like everybody else in the world waits until January. Girl Scout cookies are one of the most well-known earned revenue opportunities. Habitat for Humanity has ReStore. There are others that have consulting components. And I think one of the things for people to really understand: 501(c)(3) is simply a tax status. It is not a business model. And to really fuel and grow the impact and the passion that whatever we’re focused on, we do need to make a profit. We need to make money so that we can continue to move forward.
00:04:07 Lori
Yes. And I think that’s so important for nonprofits to understand because there are so many really good ones out there that you would love to see survive and thrive and do good in the world. So tell me who your ideal client is.
00:04:26 Tanja Horan
So my ideal client is a nonprofit organization where they have come to possibly a crossroads, right? They have plateaued, they want to grow, but they’re not really sure how to do that. They may have a vision and not sure how to break that down. They may have an organization that is going through dynamic change right now. That can be from funding or a lot of different factors. And how do we lead that organization? How do we make them move forward? And others that want to de-risk and really implement earned revenue, or at least explore where the possibilities are for them.
00:05:12 Lori
Perfect. So you’ve got a really clear idea of who or what type of businesses it is. Is there a certain revenue status that you look for, a certain revenue range?
00:05:27 Tanja Horan
Typically, the revenue range is at a million plus within the organization because at that point, they are typically at a point where they’re ready to scale.
00:05:38 Lori
Okay, perfect. Is there a certain position within the not-for-profit that you prefer to work with?
00:05:46 Tanja Horan
It is the executive leadership team. So that will be the executive director or CEO or their immediate direct reports. And so those titles vary within an organization. When I work with them, if I’m doing a workshop or other type of engagement, then we may include other members in the team or the assessment, but usually it’s working directly with those leaders.
00:06:13 Lori
Okay, so you’re working with the equivalent of the C-suite in the corporate world?
00:06:19 Tanja Horan
Exactly.
00:06:22 Lori
All right, cool. Now, I understand you have some cool stuff coming out that you’re launching. So tell us about what you’re launching, because that’s where we’re going to go.
00:06:33 Tanja Horan
Okay. Well, I’m super excited about what we’re launching. And because it has been in development for a while, and it has been an answer to what I’ve heard from nonprofit leaders, because it is called Impact Catapult. And what I heard from leaders is sometimes they find themselves in a position where they don’t know the answers and they can’t go to their staff because they couldn’t show that they don’t know their answers. But the same thing holds true for their funders and for their board, right? They want to look for parents. Where do they come to this space? And so I created Impact Catapult, which is a cohort model where I can bring executive nonprofit leaders together and we can have a roundtable discussion where they can get solutions and strategies that others have used. And we can also have one-on-one opportunities for something that they may want to dive deeper in. And it’s all also integrated is my earned revenue blueprint, which really will help them guide and explore implementing or scaling. So some may be on the beginning of that journey, some may be in that journey and wanting to grow. So they get the tools that they need to really grow their impact.
00:07:53 Lori
Okay, great. Is there, so you have a cohort component of your program. Is there a mastermind component as well, or is that something that you would consider adding as a part of your ladder?
00:08:04 Tanja Horan
Oh, it is. It’s incorporated. I call it a roundtable.
00:08:09 Lori
Okay. Okay.
00:08:09 Tanja Horan
So that it is accessible in an open discussion.
00:08:14 Lori
Okay, cool. All right. And so you also have something else launching in quarter one. What else?
00:08:21 Tanja Horan
Yes. And then the other great, exciting thing, which is brand new for me, is a podcast. And it is called Make Nonprofits Profitable. And it is based on, you asked me earlier about debunking the myth that nonprofits cannot make a profit. And it is about providing the conversation and the tools that they need in order to be able to scale their organization and be the business that they are.
00:08:52 Lori
Okay. What is your goal for the podcast?
00:08:58 Tanja Horan
My goal for, I have twofold for the goal. One will be partly education. It is for the nonprofit leaders. It is also for the boards. It is for the volunteers and the funders about how do we build up our nonprofit organizations and help them be even better from what they’re doing. So part of it’s education. Part of it is also to get and understand, because that structure, it’s more than just conversation. I’m going to give you tips that you can pragmatically implement. And then if you want to explore more opportunity, what that means. And then Impact Catapult would be a wonderful opportunity to go more in-depth, to learn how to apply it within your organization.
00:09:55 Lori
Are you going to have guests?
00:09:57 Tanja Horan
I am going to have some guests because I have, there are other organizations that are having earned revenue right now. So I want people to see directly what it looks like. Also in the ecosystem of us that are supporting nonprofit organizations to understand. So we might have a variety of different people. That is, you’re building the business capacity and the capacity to scale your organization that you might need across the different functions.
00:10:32 Lori
Okay. So I heard a little bit of this in there. So I’m going to give you a little bit of a reframe for the podcast. Instead of thinking it as two launches, I’m launching Impact Catapult and I’m launching a podcast. What if you looked at your podcast as part of the business development? So this is part of your funnel.
00:10:52 Lori
And you’re doing some of the content, doing the solo episodes that you’re talking about with the tips and the case studies and things that you’re talking about. You could easily use that as your content, which will show your expertise, which is what we want in a podcast. We want to highlight us, especially when we’re using it as a business development tool. We’re edifying you, showing your expertise and your authority.
00:11:22 Lori
What if you looked at your guests instead of bringing in and talking about things that they’ve done? What if you looked at bringing your guests in who could be your ideal client, so that you’re doing something very similar to what we’re doing here. You’re coaching them through, you’re asking them so that they are using their case studies. So it is a clear funnel and a clear path for you to offer your programs at the end.
00:11:49 Lori
So they’re not sales conversations. You and I are not having a one-on-one sales conversation. We’re having a coaching episode. We’re having a coaching call. So if you were to do something like that with your guest, and specifically target who you want to work with, how would that feel to you? How would that sound to you?
00:12:10 Tanja Horan
I like that. I like the aspect to be able to give, right? And being able to experience it. And making sure that someone gets value. And everything that I do and try to put forward at the forefront of my mind is, how did I just give you value? No matter where our conversation goes, I want you to walk away with something that you can use in value.
00:12:41 Lori
Perfect. So that is not only value for the person, the client, the potential client that’s on your call or your guest, but it’s also value for the person listening. It may not be exactly what they need, but it’s pretty darn close and will get them thinking. And how do they, who am I going to get to implement this thinking but Tanja?
00:13:06 Lori Green is pull quote for the hook pre-opening.
So it takes it into… When I started looking at my podcast as business development instead of just putting, getting out there and getting visibility, it does a couple of things. It takes the pressure off of how many downloads you get, because we all, as podcasters, we all worry, what do our downloads look like? What do our numbers look like? That’s not the goal.
00:13:29 Lori
The goal is now to make myself the authority, to get myself the visibility as the authority to my ideal client, and to have my ideal client call me so that I can give them a taste of what it’s like to work with me, thereby giving them value, you value and them. So it’s a three win. So how does something like that sound to you?
00:13:51 Tanja Horan
That sounds great.
00:13:55 Lori
Okay.
00:13:55 Tanja Horan
And much more natural.
00:13:58 Lori
Yes, it’s a very natural thing that happens when you do it well and you do it right. And I know you, and I know it’s you do everything very well. So I have no doubt that would work for you. But I think it puts it into a different scale.
00:14:12 Lori
Because one of the things on your, when you filled out your pre-coaching questionnaire is you said, “I want visibility and I want consistency in social media.” It takes that pressure off as well because you’re not depending on social media to get listeners, you’re depending on your ideal client. And it’s a very niche client that you’re working for.
00:14:36 Lori
So how are you, when you’re thinking about, and this may be a question that’s a little further down the road for you, but I’ll put you on the spot here. When you’re thinking about opening your show, how are you thinking about opening your show? Have you thought about it at all?
00:14:55 Tanja Horan
I have thought about it, but this is really good for me to get the impact because podcasting is new for me, right? And so this will be, you talk about going out of your comfort zone or trying to challenge yourself, this is in the realm.
00:15:08 Tanja Horan
I have been thinking about two approaches. There’s a soft approach that kind of is an invitation and so forth. And then there is a much more, we’re going to call it a dynamic approach and go ahead and upfront debunk the myth and show that there is a pathway. And actually it’s the fuel that they need. That’s as far as I got. So I’ve been debating between the two.
00:15:45 Lori
I would be right up front with it because you want who you want to listen and who you’re serving is the executive director’s executive committee. And like I said, it doesn’t mean that the rest of the not-for-profit world won’t get value for this. But you don’t want the volunteer that’s just giving time.
00:16:14 Lori
Every organization needs those, but that’s not who you want to talk to on your show. You want to talk to the decision makers. So I would call them out at the very, very front.
00:16:23 Lori
And I made some notes. So I’m going to give this to you. And I’ll give you this in notes when we’re finished.
00:16:41 Lori
This is a cut moment. Welcome to the Make Nonprofits Profitable Podcast for executive directors who are feeling funding pressure, struggling to scale impact, and know earned revenue has to be a part of the solution, but you aren’t sure how to make it work. Welcome to the show. I’m Tanja Horan. And I’m going to be your guide, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:17:06 Lori
So you’re really calling them out at the very, very beginning. This is who this show is for. So it doesn’t mean that the volunteer isn’t going to listen to it. It’s saying, if you have an executive director, this is for you. Or if I’m on the executive team, this is for me.
00:17:22 Lori
I specifically said executive directors and it does a couple of things. Not only does it clearly identify who your ideal client is, but it also kind of gets sort of the tire kickers, which in a coaching episode or when you’re giving content, that’s a good thing. You don’t necessarily want to spend your time on. You want solid people because podcasts are a lot of work.
00:17:50 Lori
They’re a lot of time to do them well and you want to make the most of what you do. And you and I have a relationship outside of this. We’re part of a women together. And I know that quality is very important to you. So you’re not going to put out something just slap it up there. So to be very clear on who you’re working with. Does that kind of like make you choke up or does that like, okay, I can do that?
00:18:22 Tanja Horan
Oh no, that’s good.
00:18:24 Lori
Okay, good.
00:18:25 Tanja Horan
And it’s succinct. I may add to that, their board and their funders that want them to exponentially grow, that are in that realm.
00:18:37 Lori
Yes, and it’s also your words. Not necessarily mine, or in full transparency, a little ChatGPT help, my idea partner. But put it in your words. But you can be very clear. And if you listen to some of the successful podcasters that use their podcast to grow their business, they are very clear in who they work with and the direction and the goal of the podcast. So don’t be afraid to be clear with that.
00:19:07 Lori
The other thing I’m going to suggest to you is make sure… I love the title of your show because it says exactly what you’re doing on the show. You’re talking about making nonprofits profitable. And that’s very clear. So if I’m searching nonprofits being profitable, it should come up.
00:19:30 Lori
I’m going to encourage you to add a subtitle. I know that in your notes, you have a three word subtitle, but look at something that’s very Apple and Google searchable so that when somebody is coming in and searching for nonprofit scalability, I’m not sure exactly some of the words that they would be searching for, podcasts, not-for-profit making money. You want to put those words in a subtitle.
00:19:59 Lori
You never have to say them. You never have to refer to them. All you want to do is put it in your, for example, in your Apple title. Here’s the title of your program, colon, longer subtitle that has very heavy keyword search words so that people, because those are searchable.
00:20:22 Lori
Then under who is the author or who is the person responsible for the podcast, you put your name and then you put what you do because that is also searchable. And be very clear, I work with nonprofits to make revenue. So you’re putting that in there because the author is also searchable and those are terms that are searchable. And a lot of people don’t realize that, that you can put your titles in there or expand a little bit and make that searchable.
00:20:52 Lori
So looking at this kind of information, does that change anything about the way you think about the guests that you want to have on the show?
00:21:13 Tanja Horan
I think it makes it more targeted. It also opens it up. Can I ask a question back to the subtitle?
00:21:25 Lori
Absolutely.
00:21:26 Tanja Horan
Just for clarity. So I have the artwork. Does it need to be in the artwork or can it just be in the descriptions?
00:21:36 Lori
It doesn’t need to be in the artwork. And here’s why you don’t want to put it in the artwork. For one thing, you have to change the artwork. But if it’s not, if you’re not getting results that you think you should, then you can go back and change that. I’ve changed my subtitle so many times. And if it’s a subtitle, all you’re doing is changing it on the podcast feeds. You’re not changing it in anywhere else. And you’re probably never, I can’t even tell you what mine is now. I’ve changed it so many times.
00:22:04 Lori
Because I’m trying to find that sweet spot. I’m testing to see what is going to be the sweet spot for midlife entrepreneurs, midlife business owners. I change it constantly. So if you don’t put it on your tile and your artwork, use your three words that you had. That’s a great subtitle. Use that because it says exactly what you’re doing in the podcast. Your subtitle will expand that. And that’s what’s searchable, not the three words that’s on your podcast tile.
00:22:34 Tanja Horan
Okay.
00:22:35 Lori
That help?
00:22:36 Tanja Horan
Yes, it does.
00:22:37 Lori
Okay, cool. Cool. So I’m assuming, since you’ve been doing this for a while, that you’ve already had clients. Okay. Are any of those clients, clients to get you started with this, that would be great case studies to come back on as guests?
00:22:57 Tanja Horan
Oh, yes. Yes. And I’ve talked to some of them already to go ahead and put them. I said it’s coming. They were all excited, especially when I shared with them the title. And so yes, they would be some of the initial guests.
00:23:18 Lori
Yeah, and that’s kind of an easy thing because you know them really well and they would make good guests. They would make good coaching, coaching slash case studies for your show. And there’s nothing better. And also at the end, you can get good testimonials with it and good sound bites from it. And they already have had trust in you established. So that would be a good thing to do.
00:23:46 Lori
So your first action step from our call is to start working on the potential guest list. Who are previous clients? Who are clients that you want to have on?
00:24:00 Lori
Because here’s the cool thing about the podcast. If you’re looking at a business development standpoint, then you go after and you invite those executive directors that you want to be introduced to or that you want to get to know to be guests on your show. Because there is probably not one executive director out there who wouldn’t want to talk about their business, about what they do and what their nonprofit is.
00:24:24 Lori
And then you can, it’s easy conversation to go into. So what are the challenges that you’re facing now and give you the coaching opportunity? How does that sound?
00:24:36 Tanja Horan
That sounds great. That sounds really, and I can think of a number of them. And so would you, I’m curious, would you position it, though, and frame it as an invitation and lead with an opportunity to spotlight and highlight your organization and then we have a conversation, or how would you frame it?
00:25:02 Lori
I would frame it as an opportunity to work through one of their challenges. And here’s the reason I say that, because when I first started my podcast, I was bringing guests on that I wanted visibility. Here, come get visibility, come get this. And then when I pivoted my podcast back in September, that’s how I sent out my first, come get visibility. Well, guess what? I ended up with calls of clients that, or potential clients that only wanted to get visibility. They didn’t need help with a problem. So I learned very quickly, all right, don’t position it that way.
00:25:34 Lori
And yes, and I had clients come on as my first, to kind of practice with this hot seat coaching, but I revised the way I was wording it so that we could work through a challenge or work through a problem.
00:25:52 Lori
When you and I were talking, I was like, you were talking about some of the things about the podcast. And so why don’t we come on and do a coaching call around this and let’s talk around it, talk about it. So part of this is helping you feel comfortable in solving a problem that you have.
00:26:19 Lori
So if you bring your executive, I’ll call them executive directors or decision makers for that nonprofit, what is the biggest problem that you’re finding in your revenue stream right now or with your ability to scale your business? Then you can come in and coach them specifically around that. And at the end, you wrap it up.
00:26:32 Lori
And then it’s an easy transition to say, if you would like help with this or if you would like to talk more about this, I have some opportunities and would be happy to discuss with you if you’re open to that or if you’d like to schedule another call. So then it doesn’t become a salesy thing. It becomes a natural extension of the conversation. How does that land with you?
00:26:56 Tanja Horan
I like that. On that natural extension, is that on the recording?
00:27:03 Lori
I wouldn’t do it on the recording. I would do it afterwards. And here’s why. Because when you make hot seat coaching, and here’s my theory around it. If I make this a coaching call and I sit here and talk to you all about the programs I have and all about blah, blah, blah, then it becomes about me. It doesn’t become about you.
00:27:22 Lori
But you can be able to be sure that after we hang up on the call, I will probably say, if you want to continue the conversation, this is how we can work together. If it’s a natural, if it’s a fit, if it’s something that sounds like it would be a good thing. And it takes it off of those calls. And that way your future guests don’t feel like, okay, this is just a sales call, a thinly disguised sales call.
00:27:45 Tanja Horan
Yeah, some failed.
00:27:47 Lori
Yes, it’s real value. And I think there’s, and I was, this wasn’t a conversation that we were going to have on the call, but it’s a good thing to point out because I see that happening a lot with, when people, when podcasters are doing coaching calls, it is a thinly disguised discovery call. I’ve seen some coaches do it really, really well or some podcasters, but then I’ve seen others and I’m like, I don’t know if I want visibility for my show, there are other ways to get it.
00:28:16 Lori
So that’s something that you will develop with comfort over time and an easy way to transition into it. How does that feel?
00:28:27 Tanja Horan
That’s good. Because as I said, I’m really about giving you value. Yeah. And making sure that those that listen take the value from the conversation. It can be the podcast can be the vehicle. The information shared needs to be accessible because it is for them.
00:28:52 Lori
Right. It’s for your audience. Well, you know, it’s for both of you. I have found when I’ve been doing my podcast that I have grown my business because I do the research and it’s helped me expand and help me with doing more.
00:29:15 Lori
But having said that, it doesn’t mean that you can’t seed during the calls. And for the audience that’s not aware of what seeding is, seeding is bringing up, when I coach my clients or I’ve had other clients that have had this situation, because it’ll say to the audience, oh, she works with people, she works with clients. Or you could seed your program. And you know, that’s one of the things that’s been a big hit in my program is blah, blah, blah. Or how high level masterminds can help, or round tables as your terminology.
Around here is an interchange about does she have a time limit – please delete that from the video!
00:29:42 Lori
So you can seed the programs and seed the calls while you’re doing that. Okay? So think of ways that you can seed, because that’s always a really good way to bring out your program without being in a very salesy conversation. Okay. Because I think the thing for you is it has to be natural. It can’t be pitchy. It can’t be salesy. You want it to be very valuable content. Cool.
00:30:22 Tanja Horan
Yeah.
00:31:07 Lori
So Tanja, when you look at everything we’ve talked about, I’ve thrown a couple of different things at you and some of it I think you’ve already known and some of it hopefully it’s made you look at it a little bit differently. So what would be your one biggest takeaway from today? Putting you on the spot here.
00:31:22 Tanja Horan
You put me on the spot because there are so many good takeaways. So there are some, I’m going to say two. I’m not, you don’t get one. You get two. One is, I will call it the tactical components of the podcast, right? And the SEOs. Being new to this arena, I don’t necessarily know that, right? I’ve outlined everything. I’ve got it structured. You and I have talked and I’m adding some things in and modifying some of that structure, like the hot seats to come in, which are a key component that are twofold.
00:32:06 Tanja Horan
They will, it can highlight some of the conversation that I may be able to help them with, but also they get to take value away. And you can hear the conversations and that sits well with me. Good. Because again, I lead with value first.
00:32:28 Lori
Yeah. And a podcast is a really great way to put that value out there. So, and you don’t necessarily have to call them hot seat coaching. I do because I want to highlight my coaching, but you can still call them interviews. You can still call them, their strategic consult. I mean, there’s any number of things. We can, not on the spot, we could come up with something really cool to call them that would not feel misleading because I think that’s important to you as well, but also give you an opportunity to share some ways to help and add value to them.
00:32:51 Lori
It also shows your audience that, oh, hey, I have that same problem. Let me call her because she can help me. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing your business with us.
00:33:16 Lori
And I think the world of you. So I was really excited for the call. So totally selfish. It’s like all about it.
00:33:27 Tanja Horan
That works. This has been great. Thank you so much. And I appreciate your insights and sharing your experience with me so I can have a successful launch.
00:33:34 Lori
You’re very welcome.
00:33:38 Lori
Absolutely. I have no doubt it’s going to be successful. And also by mentioning your podcast as the business development tool, it takes a little bit pressure off because in your notes you said, “I have two launches.” I’m like, there you don’t, you only have one. You’re just using this to support, so it takes some of that pressure off.
00:34:00 Lori
If you are a business owner listening and you think, oh, I could use some help with a problem similar to that I can certainly help you with some of the marketing strategy or the business strategy. Would love to talk with you. The Midlife Business Academy, we are here for you. And remember, it’s never too late to build the business of your dreams. I’m Lori Lyons, and we’ll see you next time.